Melanie: Hello everyone. Thanks for joining me today. Um, I'm Melanie, also known as that Lady in the Yellow Jacket, and today we are having a conversation with one of the top leaders in our state, Massachusetts Probation Commissioner Pamerson Ifill. This month marks his second year as leader of the Massachusetts Probation Service, also known as MPS. Commissioner Ifill leads an agency that includes probation departments in each of the 105 courts across the Commonwealth, 18 statewide Community Justice Support Centers, and the Massachusetts Trial Court Community Service Program. MPS is a department of the Massachusetts Trial Court. Commissioner, thank you so much for spending a little bit of time with me today.
Commissioner Ifill: It's a pleasure to be here. I've heard a lot about you, I'm looking forward to this interview, and I'm excited to share some of the fantastic work
of the men and women across our, uh, great probation department.
Melanie: Awesome, and I look forward to hearing. Let me start off by saying it's been two years. Um, does it, do you still feel like the new kid on the block?
Commissioner Ifill: Um, so I've spent 32 years in the Massachusetts Probation Service. I've held several different positions in the system, so I don't know that it ever felt like new kid on the block, but you know, the level of responsibility is broad and daunting at different points in times. But it is also some exciting work because we get a chance probation is in the second chance business. And so wherever we are able to work with people who've been struggling or dealing with, um, substance use or mental health or delinquency of criminality or probate and family matters and we get to see people having success and we have a lot of success. You know, I, I think it is rewarding. So I don't know that it feels new other than it feels more like a different challenge.
Melanie: Okay, it feels like a different challenge. So for people out there who do not know exactly what, what you do, just give us a quick overview.
Commissioner Ifill: So as Commissioner of Probation, again, you gave, uh, some data points on the number of courts and departments, um, that total is close to 18, you know, when we are fully staffed is about 1,876 employees. Um, right now because of budget constraints and challenges across the state and across the country fiscally, we're probably around 17 um, um, 72. And so nevertheless, you know, I oversee, we've got, um, about 4,700 individuals that we work with every day across the Commonwealth. About 7,000 of those are folks who are under risk need supervision, which means that they're on probation for, um, some crime or, or, or, or, and then there's about another 487 cases that are delinquent, delinquent cases. We work with about 10-12,000, um, children requiring assistance and then about another 2,400, um, what we call care and protection cases. And so we, we spend a lot of time trying to provide services and supports to individuals who are involved in our court system. And not all of them are here because of crime. Many of them are family-related, school, you, you know, in the juvenile
Melanie: When you say, when you say family related, can you, um, maybe just give us a couple of examples?
Commissioner Ifill: Well, we have family and probate courts, so uh, divorce proceedings, um, you know, family estate matters, um, um, childcare issues, um, you know, in the family and probate court. I mean, and those tend to have, you know, more often than not when people think about probation, we think about criminality and delinquency, but we work with families who are also in crisis in that space or who are going through, who've experienced death and probative family matters. And so we are really one of the full service probation systems anywhere in the country. Um, and, and so we work in a lot of spaces other than just delinquency and crime.
Melanie: And that's good to know, 'cause a lot of people probably didn't know that even if it could be a divorce proceeding that you would get involved in. And I'm sure there's many people out there that do not know that.
Commissioner Ifill: And yeah, and we have some we are, you know, and, and we work, probation officers' work is work within that space trying to bring some level of mediation and closure and settlement rates to families, which is really probation officers sitting with, um, divorcing spouses, trying to get them to settle matters amicably. And, and, and that requires a higher level of skill. I mean, it is easier when somebody violates the conditions of probation. You go to court, you talk to them, you make a recommendation, but here you're really trying to get people on disparate ends of the spectrum to try to agree, you know, custody and property and even coming down to dogs and pets, who should get the dog or the cat or whatever else. And so it can get really complex when there's a lot of emotion and challenges there. And our people do a phenomenal job around the Commonwealth working in that space. And it's usually the underrepresented, underlooked story, and some of the real difficult and challenging work that our probation departments have.
Melanie: So I noticed, I, I was reading a little bit about you and I know that, uh, one thing that you really were instrumental in is getting probation officers to be available when people aren't working, like nights and weekends. Can you talk about that and, and, how you made that happen?
Commissioner Ifill: So here's what I'll say to you. I mean, I think the worst condition of probation really is the condition that says, and we have to have it, but you need to report to your probation officers, required. And typically courts are open 8:30 to 4:30, sometimes 8:30 to 5, more often than not. And, and when you think of that condition, you know, we were more often than not in some of our courts as many 65, 70% of folks are living at or below the poverty line. And so there are folks that don't have sometimes the most secure kinds of employment or school and our education, and then we require them to come through those narrow windows. And that's really disruptive. I mean, if I have an employee who's missing every Wednesday, every two weeks, they have to leave at a particular time, you start asking questions. But when people are working general vulnerable jobs and placement, you place the employment at jeopardy when you require them to leave work, to come to report on these kinds of schedules. And I think it is important that we are significantly more flexible. So we allow probation officers to work nights and weekends, provide more flexible reporting. The police stations, the Community Justice Support Centers are going out and doing home visits. And so, you know, if I lose my job as a probationer, I'm going to, you know, and then I lose my housing, it jeopardizes my kids and custody, and, uh, if I'm in treatment, why should I bring you out a treatment that is continuous and contiguous to come and report to your probation office for 15 to 20 minutes when I can do it on Zoom, I can come see you at the program, I can have you report after hours. So we are trying really not to disrupt lives and really be building more of a partnership.
There was a time where probation really was about trail them, nail them, and jail them. We have developed significantly more, much more understanding and empathy and how we support people in those spaces, how we try to understand the socioeconomic drivers of crime and we try to disrupt those as opposed to disrupt people's lives
Melanie: Now, and that's good, thank you for doing that. And I'm sure, what do the numbers say? Is it working?
Commisioner Ifill: Well, look, we are, Massachusetts is ranked as the number one state in violating the most people, uh, and, and, and violating the fewest people and sending people back to prison or jail. Um, and, and so we've reduced our violation rates by 44, 45%. And so that tells you this kind of approach is really working.
Melanie: Now I know you were doing some, uh, work in trying to better or get rid of that big ankle bracelet, the GPS system. Can you talk about some of the new technology that you're looking forward to?
Commissioner Ifill: So look, I, um, last year or earlier this year, we, a year and a half ago, we went out and we brought in a new vendor. One of the things I worked as a chief probation officer here, here in Suffolk Superior Court, which is all of Boston and, um, Chelsea and Revere and a couple, um, I think Winthrop, Winthrop. And, and one of the things that kept coming up all of the time was the technology wasn't working for people. People had to be plugged into a wall and they would go to bed and they would think the unit is still connected and it would disconnect and they'd wake up in a panic because the system died. We issue warrants because the order is that you need to be moral 24/7. Um, and, and so we had a lot of issues with the technology, so we put that out to bid. We brought in a new vendor, um, now that has a portable GPS, you know, you can be charged within an hour to two hours. You no more longer fed to a wall, much more flexibility. So we reduced the number of warrants there, which means significantly less detentions or alerts. Um, and, and so the technology has gotten a lot better. It went from having a 24-hour charge and one charge for full 2 hours. You have 60 hours of charge time, almost, you know, you know, two days, more than two days now you can go without really having to worry or charge. So it provided a lot of peace of mind and comfort for people.
Um, with the GPS, we are adding a watch capacity over the next years. I'm really interested in women and children. We want to have a less invasive, it is no larger than this, um, Apple Watch on my hand. Um, and it has the ability to, you know, mobile text on alert, we can call it, and really have people, you know, rather than, you know, the machine dying. We can allow people whether or not they're in the exclusion zone. So if you've got a victim or a part that they need to stay away from, we can reach out and connect to people in ways that we can't. We are gonna rebrand that online sometime next year for women, especially women and especially juveniles. I, I had an opportunity of witnessing a mother and a little boy being made fun of because the mother was wearing a GPS. And that was one of the areas that I really wanted to bring a little more humanistic approach to how we do the work that we do in probation.
Melanie: You said you had, you had a chance to witness that. Did you just happen to be in the area when it was happening?
Commissioner Ifill: Happened to be close to a mother picking up a child from a, a a a facility, you know, with children and, and hearing the, watching the kids laughing and kidding at the little boy. And I can only imagine the damage that, that those kinds of situations have caused for any number of parents who have to go pick up their child or children from a facility where other children, you know, and they're fun and in the youth can have, you know, play that out.
Melanie: Well, we are blessed to have a commissioner who's out there in the field and who can see something like that and empathize. So I thank you. I definitely thank you. And I'm sure this mother did too.
Commissioner Ifill: Yeah, well, she would never know what I witnessed, but nevertheless.
Melanie: She thanks you privately, she thanks you privately.
Commissioner Ifill: I, I'm sure, but, but again, part of that is understanding those little nuances and know the impact that those things can have.
Melanie: So let's talk about, let's switch to the community, uh, now. What are some of the things you're doing in, in the community relative to, uh, making sure people stay on the right track? Uh, job fairs, health fair, MassHealth?
Commissioner Ifill: So I'm glad you asked about Mass Health. Look, you know, in some of our courts, one of the things that we know is that a lot of folks in the state where healthcare is supposed to be free, we know that whether it is people not having internet access or being able to connect and stay up to date with information. And so one of the things that we did, um, a couple of years ago, we approached the Department of Public Health and MassHealth to see if we can train individuals on being able to train. We call them certified application counselors. And we've now got about 25, 30 individuals who work for the Trial Court or vendors contract with us to really be able to go and be able to, if you come in now for an intake at any courthouse anywhere in the Commonwealth, one of the questions on the intake sheet is do you have health insurance? Yes, I do, fine, great. No, I don't, or I don't know, we can go right into the system, we can look it up, we can see whether or not, and we can naturally fill out the application and help you select a health plan. No other court system that I'm aware of is doing that in the country.
And so what we're really trying to, we know that for many of our individuals who are struggling with healthcare and preventative disease, um, causes that if we can sign you up for insurance or connect you with MassHealth, we can really start you down the way to healthy living. We know that in many of our urban communities, a significant portion of our people have higher rates of health, um, health related illnesses, diabetes, asthma, um, and, and we know that if, and hypertension, high blood pressure, all of these are things. And if we can get people insurance and a probation officer or at work can say, we can help you with that, that matters. And so we've done a lot more work in that space all over the Commonwealth with our Pretrial Division.
And I, I think those are the kinds of things that aren't, you know, you know, talked about. But those are important. We developed a text messaging system. We know that anywhere around this country on any given day, 35% of people who are going to court aren't going to court simply because they forgot. There's so many other pressures: Work, childcare, housing, food insecurity, um, health-related issues. And so we launched, in 2020, a text messaging system that 16 hours before your court date, you get a text message
and 4 days before your court date, alerting you that you've got a court date, show up for court. And, and we've reduced warrants across the board in every racial and gender and age demographic because we are simply now sending text messages. And so those are sort of the things we do.
We partner with MassHealth to do a lot more in the department of mental health, behavioral health space to help people be successful.
Melanie: Okay. Um, folks, if you're just joining us, I'm Melanie. I'm also known as the Lady in the Yellow Jacket. And my, uh, guest today is, uh, Massachusetts Probation Commissioner Pamerson Ifill. So let me ask you, these are all just great, wonderful things
that we're doing here in Massachusetts. There's 49 other states in the union. Do people actually reach out to you? Do any other probation commissioners reach out to you to see what we're doing since we're doing it so well and it's working?
Commissioner Ifill: Well, look, I mean, I, and, and here's what I'll say to you before I, I, I go down too far the path, like no system is perfect. There are things that I still think we need to address. But yes, you know, we had a contingent, I, I was in Morocco in early July, myself and Vin Lorenti, one of our deputies, and we were there to train them. And on our probation system, they're, they're just passed some new laws there, um, around, um, you know, intermediate sanctions that they're looking to do. So we trained their whole correctional system on how to develop, you know, evidence-based practice and community probation supervision.
Um, I, I'm also the president elect of the American Probation and Parole Association, which is the Lazarus Association that deals with probation and parole in the country and around the world. And, and you know, I, I've developed trainings, delivered trainings there, but I'm also, I get to see, you know, you know, different entities reach out to us here at different points in times about how we are doing what we're doing. But we also have a lot of partnerships with Connecticut. You know, I speak, you know, with friends and
individuals from all around the country about the things that we're doing here in the Commonwealth, but we also learning from other states as well.
Melanie: So your drive to help, I, I can just feel your energy, it's like booming off the screen.
Commissioner Ifill: Well, well thank you. But
Melanie: Your, your drive to help really, I can tell comes from within. Where does that drive come from?
Commissioner Ifill: So, look, I, I, you know, my mother died when I was nine years old. I lived with an aunt for 4 years, I ran away at 13 and went back to the house where my mother had died with and left, you know, and left us. There were 10 of us that were scattered all over the island. And the only time we've ever gotten back together is as a result of funerals. So I always called funerals an Ifill family reunion, but in that time, from the age of 13 until I came to the United States, you know, I, I got into trouble. I was stabbed, I was shot in the ankle, I was, you know, I, I got into trouble. Sometimes I'd shoplift just to fuel, feed, and survive. And so I know what poverty looks like. I know what crime and victimization feels like. I also know what it is to, you know, to be a borderline delinquent.
And, and, and, and, um, uh, you know, I got into trouble as a young man and a police officer rescued me from the back of a police car and he introduced me, gave me $2, and had me meet him in the city. And as a result of that $2, introduced me to the national boxing coach. And that changed the trajectory of my life.
And, and so I get that, I get what all of those factors in terms of being a victim, struggling, hunger, poverty, and food insecurity, and knowing that more often than not, if you don't find the right kinds of interventions, it could leave you deeper into a system of crime
and criminality and delinquency. So if that comes across, I mean, that's my motto. I mean, somebody gave me a second chance, and I'm just repaying that at the highest level here in the Massachusetts Probation Service.
Melanie: You talked about being hungry. I know that the, um, your division or your court system does an Annual Food Drive. Can you talk about that?
Commissioner Ifill: So lemme just walk you through why, how we got here. Back in 2015, the, you know, the then Chief Justice Ralph Gants had some concerns on racial and ethnic disparities in our probation, or within our criminal legal system in Massachusetts. He had Harvard come and take a look at that, and it showed that we did have some disparity. But born outta that effort, um, were the trial courts brought a strategic plan initiatives. And so one of the things with diversity, equity, and inclusion are workforce diversity
and cultural competence. And out of that, we launched what was now is now the largest diversity celebration of culture and ethnicity and race and all that involves that. But one of the ways that we wanted to do, um, we launched something called Trial Court Cares, which was a food drive. And we know at the time in Massachusetts, 1 in 6 children were struggling with food insecurity. And so we set up, in more than a hundred locations, a food drive, um, to raise food. And annually now we are raising about 10 funds of food. We had dev, you know, we had donated it to homeless shelters and food pantries all across the Commonwealth. And so we're in the midst of that.
This year, we've expanded it from November 1st, right through December 20th, because we know with, you know, what went on just now with the house, I mean with the, you know, uh, Congress shutting down and SNAP benefits being suspended, and even if they have now reopened, we know that that is going to continue for a while before they get that system back and rolling at full tilt. So we are donating, we're hoping to donate double the amount of food this year. Uh, but we're also donating clothing and hats and gloves and socks and, and basic necessities that people need.
Melanie: And if people are out there, if they're, if they see this and they wanna donate, where should they come to?
Commissioner Ifill: Any trial court location. So all of our Community Justice Support Centers, all of our trial courts, our Supreme Judicial Court, our appellate courts, all of our District, Superior, and Juvenile Courts, there are boxes there. They can just walk in and ask the probation staff or clerk staff, I understand you have a food drive, so if you're at home, you're listening and you really want to contribute to food and home, uh, ho and housing in the Commonwealth, your donations are welcome.
Melanie: So, nobody makes it to your level alone or without advice. Can you share with the viewers maybe one or two of the best pieces of advice you've ever received?
Commissioner Ifill: Look, I mean, probably, look, I, you know, I I think be kind, uh, you know, be helpful. Um, and sometimes the angry young person before you isn't angry because they're angry at you. They're just angry because they're frustrated, they're tired, and you know, your interaction with them and demonstrate might be the first level of kindness or dignity or respect that somebody showed to them on that there. And you would never know. Again, I walk you through some of my life of poverty and struggling and living, and a police officer intervened and helped me. But along the way, you know, I came to Massachusetts to pursue a professional boxing career. Um, and, and you know, whether it was the Goody Petronelli, whether it was a guy by the name of Jeff Russell, you know, but here's a story that I'll share with you. So when I came to Massachusetts, I was living at the Brockton White Room 615, I was paying $60 a week, and I was training to box out of the Petronelli's. And I had a, and my first fight, I had an EKG that showed I had an enlarged heart. And it says, well, you can't box with that. And, and, and, and then I was trying to figure out what I was going to do.
And I met a woman by the name of Mary Baker who was working at Massasoit Community College, and she introduced me to another nanny who became my surrogate mother, a woman by the name of Ida O'Donnell. And she was the multilingual counsel at Massasoit. And she took me over to the president and says, and I went to her office every day for three weeks, and she finally got tired and says, let's go see the president. She took me to a guy by the name of Jerry Burke, who was the president of Massasoit Community College. This is 1987. And she says, look, Dr. Burke, if you don't give this guy a scholarship, I am afraid I'll never get him out my office. And he says, well, that is persistence. She said, she said, he's been coming to my office every day for three weeks.
And he said, he says, you know what? I'm gonna give you an international scholarship and I'm gonna give you free tuition and I'm gonna take you to our immigration people in the Financial Aid Department. Took me into Boston, gave me a J 9, changed my status from work to a student. And I received a full scholarship at Massasoit for two years. And that set me on my journey.
From there, I went to Stonehill College, got my bachelor's from Stonehill. When I graduated, a guy by the name of Jeff Russell and Ida, both of them says, well, you can't finish. Let's go over to Brandeis. And we went to Brandeis and almost got a free ride because I had solid academic performance and still work, and they love my story.
And so a lot of people, I'm not here alone. I'm here on the giant shoulders of a lot, but then my wife, we've been married, my wife we met, I, I met her at Massasoit. We've been married for 38 years. We've got three lovely children, and I wouldn't be here without standing on their shoulders as well. So, nobody does it alone.
Melanie: Right, nobody does it alone. So I'm just curious, the, uh, police officer, are you still in touch with him? Is he still living?
Commissioner Ifill: No, he died tragically in a car accident several years ago, so.
Melanie: Were you in touch with him before the car accident?
Commissioner Ifill: Yes, uh, yes. We were always good friends. When he saw me, always gave me a shout. We always talk. He went to some of my fights. But you know, it's a beautiful story and I, you know, you know, you, when sometimes, you know, sometimes we all plant trees or many of, uh, you know, you live in a city, you can't plant a tree, but the beauty in life is planting a tree. And then, and you may never enjoy the fruit, but other folks will. And that's the story I live with. He planted a fruit tree and it grows, and he never enjoyed the fruit, but here I am, the recipient of all of that love and compassion.
Melanie: The recipient of all of that love and compassion, and thank goodness he got a chance to see you.
Commissioner Ifill: Yeah.
Melanie: While you were on your way up the ladder.
Commissioner Ifill: Yes
Melanie: And, uh, almost at the top of the ladder. So what do you do when you're not helping people, being the MPS or working with MPS, being the commissioner, when you go home and you let your hair down and you kick your shoes off, what do you like to do for fun?
Commissioner Ifill: Well, there's no hair to let down, but, [laughs] but you can, look, I love to read, I love to watch movies. I love landscaping. I love gardening. But I'm a prolific reader. I, you know, and I read a lot of spy novels and when most people are sleeping, but I also read, by 11 o'clock most days, I've read every major newspaper around the world. And so, and part of that is really to continue to have an informed and enlightened view, but also to stay sharp.
And I, so reading is really my, my major passion, you know, um, it was one of the reasons I was able to translate growing up in the education in the Caribbean and coming here and translating that into Massasoit, Stonehill, and Brandeis. And, and so reading is really how I de-stress.
I still hit the heavy bag. I still try to jump rope. I still try to stay active around boxing, but those are the things I do.
Melanie: What about any of your opponents back in the day? Are they any of the guys you beat up on? Are they in touch?
Commissioner Ifill: You know, well, I, I, the folks that I spar with, you know, boxing is one of those things. I mean, nobody's ever angered anybody after fight. What you see in television is more make-believe because you, you know, the inherent risk that lies in the sport. But yeah, I still go home when I go back to Barbados and I connect with friends that boxed, uh, folks, but people are scattered all over the world. Some of them have sadly passed on.
Melanie: Folks, if you're just joining us, I'm ending my interview with, uh, I'm Melanie, also known as that Lady in the Yellow Jacket. And my guest today is, uh, Massachusetts Probation Commissioner Pamerson Ifill. Is there anything out there that you want people to know about you that they may not know about you?
Commissioner Ifill: Um, look, I mean, I, you know, I, I wear my heart on my sleeve. I, you know, I, you know, I, I, you know, I, I cry a lot, only not necessarily cry a lot, but I, but, but I'm so concerned about trying to help and do work for people. And sometimes that comes with some self-sacrifice. So I think part of that is remember sometimes to take a step back and take care of yourself and, you know, eat right, hydrate well, but I, but I, you know, what I want people to know is that we, collectively, you know, that can help people. And, and, and, and if we're kind and compassionate and, and really, you know, more often than not, we keep hearing a lot about empathy. But if, if, if I have to tell you I'm empathetic, I'm really not empathetic. Empathy is really how you do what you do and treat people and engage people and put yourself in other people's shoes to gain and understand that perspective. For me, that's the real true meaning of empathy.
So I, I, I hope that, you know, if you ever come in contact with our system and it isn't empathetic and understanding, reach out to me directly. Because our goal is to help people be successful regardless of what their background, race, ethnicity, gender, orientation. We care about people.
Melanie: You care about people. Your goal is to help people be successful. We are gonna end on that note. Thank you very much for your time today. And you've gotta come back.
Commissioner Ifill: And Melanie, it's been a pleasure. Yeah, I, I'm happy to come back. We're doing a lot of phenomenal stuff. So Melanie, it's a pleasure, and you are wearing the yellow jacket, so I love that.
Melanie: Thank you so much.
Commissioner Ifill: Thank you.